np237 ([info]np237) wrote,
@ 2008-12-22 12:38:00
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Dear “friendly” people,

during the ongoing avalanche of posts on Planet and on Debian mailing lists where you ask everyone to be friendly and considerate, you have so far:

  • deliberately framed the discussion in a gender-oriented fashion to throw away unjustified accusations of sexism;
  • inflated a 85-post long mudslinging thread with my name in the topic (which is the Google version of publicly throwing stones at people);
  • vomited on people on an IT news site and helped the site spreading misinformation about the Project;
  • shown your own frustration by trying to find hidden sexual references in messages you find offensive;
  • and I’m probably missing a lot since I’m not reading all that crap.

Pretty please. What you mean is “Go fuck yourself”, but the way you are saying it is no more friendly and actually much more rude. If you meant “Go fuck yourself”, why not just say it?

  • I would have felt better since it’s much less insulting.
  • You would have felt better since it’s really a relief to say it frankly.
  • Everyone else would have felt better since this would have ended the discussion instead of polluting the lists with useless wanking.
You are just lying to yourselves if you think your contributions to a flamewar are more friendly than others.

As for those starting discussions on the community and on the code of conduct: do you want a community like Ubuntu where everyone can be scornful and prepare lousy tricks, but always preserving the appearances (thanks to a mandatory broomstick), or a community like the Linux kernel, where people say frankly what they think, even if what they think is “I hope you were on crack while writing that” ? I know which one I choose. I may disagree with their technical development model, but at least they know that a software community is not a group of friends. And that is a sign of maturity.




(10 comments) - (Post a new comment)


[info]jasondclinton
2008-12-22 03:58 pm UTC (link)
Thank you.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]np237
2008-12-25 01:19 am UTC (link)
Well, thanks for your support.

To answer your question on IRC about how I can still contribute in these conditions, there are three things to consider:
- I had to stop being emotionally attached to the project. This happened after Dunc-Tank, and otherwise I would have had to leave at that time.
- People that flame me in the thread are either morons from which insults are praise to me, or uninformed people who just read the gibberish from the said morons. It just takes a bit of self-esteem to disregard both categories.
- There are lots of people who seem to be simply grateful for the work of all volunteers in the project, and I prefer to please them by improving Debian rather than pleasing a handful of morons.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


(Anonymous)
2008-12-23 04:11 am UTC (link)
Because I didn't mean "go fuck yourself". I meant, "you're being an asshole, stop", and you still don't seem to get it. You seem to be technically savvy; why aren't you socially savvy too? Like it or not, Debian is a community, and although you don't have to get along with everyone, you can avoid pissing off large parts of the population and starting flamewars.

For future reference, here is my handy guide for helping you meditate before you make inflammatory posts:

http://platinum.linux.pl/~jordi/piccies/posting.png

(Reply to this)


(Anonymous)
2008-12-23 04:12 am UTC (link)
Oops, forgot to sign. The previous anonymous message with the link to posting.png was from me, Jordi Gutiérrez Hermoso.

(Reply to this)

re: Dear “friendly” people,
(Anonymous)
2008-12-23 11:38 am UTC (link)
You may have some good points,
but instead of "Go fuck yourself" I prefer the "Shut up and code"

Ventrix

(Reply to this)

Just so you know
[info]kellyclowers
2008-12-24 07:20 pm UTC (link)
Since you like annoying people, I just thought you would want to know that you irritate me no end.

- Just a Debian user

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: Just so you know
[info]np237
2008-12-25 01:02 am UTC (link)
Maybe you’d want to know that I don’t care.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: Just so you know
(Anonymous)
2008-12-25 11:30 pm UTC (link)
And this is *exactly* your problem.

No social skills. For people like you that don't have them, we need to codify them for you.

Joss, you may be technical savvy (I think you maintain some good packages; can't remember). But your social ineptitude is damaging the project as a whole. Starting TWO flamethreads is not "other people's problems"; it's also YOUR problem. You can't say "fuck you all, grow a thicker skin". It's not their responsibility to tolerate your jerkitude; it's YOUR responsibility to diminish it!

Thankfully, you're just one isolated jerk. The bigger problem with Debian is that the DPL didn't slap your hand for being one. I don't think you're gonna get it. I think you're gonna keep posting flamethreads as you seem to have a marked fondness for doing so. I don't think this will go on forever; I've seen jerks like you in many other communities, jerks that never get it, and although they can jerk around for quite a while, eventually the community realises that the problem is the jerk, not the community (admittedly, this may take time, maybe another release cycle or two).

Or, you could just get it. And apologise. And get a sensitivity training clue.

- Jordi G. H.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: Just so you know
[info]np237
2008-12-26 03:16 pm UTC (link)
You must be really hopeless to consider social interactions in terms of skills. Where do you obtain your XP?

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: Just so you know
(Anonymous)
2008-12-28 04:52 am UTC (link)
It is a skill. And it's learned.

I'm getting a little tired of talking for myself, so I'll let others do the talking. Grep down to "thicker skin":

http://livesoftheirown.blogspot.com/2007/05/explaining-feminism-to-people-who-dont.html

HTH

(Reply to this) (Parent)


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